Podcast episode · American Alchemy · 7 October 2026
Secretary of Energy John Herrington on UFOs, plus Brent Friedman's reply
Jesse Michels interviews John Herrington, Reagan's Energy Secretary, now 87, at his Bay Area home, then gets Brent Friedman's reply. Herrington flatly denies telling Friedman in 1981 that aliens are real, but understates his own rank that year, contradicts his earlier denial about the cars, confirms that Grusch wrote and called him, and offers to testify in closed session. Along the way: Teller's X-ray laser, the F-117 on DOE land, a nuclear plane in Idaho, Malmgren's Bluegill debris, and DOE's fake Roswell briefings for new appointees.
Timeline
On the recordWitness testimonyAlleged / one person's word
People across the timeline · click a name or a dot
Click a person to follow their thread.
1954
Atomic Energy Act'Born secret' rule Grusch says hid UFOs
1961
Nuclear plane cancelledReactor engines still on show in Idaho
1962
Bluegill Triple Prime debrisMalmgren says he held what fell
1974
Reagan's sighting near BakersfieldPilot Bill Paynter's account
Jan–Sep 1981
Herrington runs Presidential PersonnelRecord; he says he was 'a peon'
1983
Star Wars (SDI) speechTeller's Excalibur X-ray laser
1985–89
Herrington Secretary of EnergyFinds the F-117 at Tonopah in his budget
1986–87
Tours the Greenbrier bunkerHis own account; secret until 1992
2019–20
Friedman names HerringtonOn camera to Ross Coulthart
2023–25
Grusch writes to HerringtonHerrington confirms letter and call
2025
Puthoff on Rogan: 10–40 craftBush and Hadley weighed disclosure
Mar 2026
Friedman tells it in fullSound, Light & Frequency podcast
The claims, checked
On the record (5)
Grusch wrote and called Herrington.Herrington confirms the letter and the call himself, which backs Friedman's account that Grusch sought him out.firsthandJohn S. HerringtonDavid GruschBrent Friedman
Teller showed Herrington a lens to focus a nuclear blast in space onto a silver dollar 500 miles away.Matches Livermore's Excalibur X-ray laser.firsthandJohn S. HerringtonEdward Teller
Nolan's Ubatuba fragment has magnesium isotope ratios far from terrestrial.Vallée and Nolan's 2022 paper reports it; the fragment's chain runs from a fisherman via a columnist to Vallée.firsthandGarry NolanImproved instrumental techniques, including isotopic analysis, applicable to the characterization of unusual materials with potential relevance to aerospace forensics
Rubio: things fly with impunity around our nuclear sites and they are not ours.In The Age of Disclosure.firsthandMarco RubioThe Age of DisclosureThe Age of Disclosure
Witness testimony (12)
Herrington told Friedman in 1981 that aliens are real and he had been briefed for months underground in West Virginia.Friedman is firsthand for the conversation, secondhand for its content. Herrington denies it on camera.secondhandJohn Herrington (alleged, 1981) → Brent Friedman → told itBrent FriedmanJohn S. HerringtonJohn Herrington denies Brent Friedman's 1981 account
The Navy videos are not faked; that propulsion is beyond us and any country he knows of.His own view.firsthandJohn S. HerringtonThe Nimitz 'Tic Tac'
The F-117 was hidden in his budget on Energy Department land in Nevada, underground.F-117s flew from the DOE/Sandia Tonopah Test Range (record); 'underground' is not supported.firsthandJohn S. Herrington
Atoms for Peace fracked oil with nuclear bombs and it came up radioactive.Partly: Plowshare's Gasbuggy, Rulison and Rio Blanco (1967-73) stimulated natural gas, which came up radioactive.firsthandJohn S. Herrington
Area 51 holds foreign equipment; Lazar would be telling the truth if he was reverse-engineering such equipment.Foreign materiel exploitation at Area 51 is on record; a partial confirmation of Lazar's job, not of its origin.analysisJohn S. HerringtonBob Lazar
Reagan saw a UFO near Bakersfield in 1974.Pilot Bill Paynter's account (1974).firsthandBill PaynterRonald Reagan
The 1942 Battle of Los Angeles reached Marshall and was tracked down the coast.Marshall's memo to FDR is record; 'tracked down the coast' is overstated.analysisJesse MichelsThe Battle of Los Angeles
Palomar transients are 70% more likely within a day of a nuclear test.The association is in Bruehl and Villarroel 2025 (p = 0.008), but '70%' is not the paper's figure.analysisJesse MichelsTransients in the Palomar Observatory Sky Survey (POSS-I) may be associated with nuclear testing and reports of unidentified anomalous phenomena
Inman said UFO truths may come out at some point; he told someone there were no retrieved UFOs.The Grant Cameron call is public audio; the 'no retrieved UFOs' line is Herrington's hearsay.secondhandBobby Ray InmanJohn S. Herrington
Casey never raised UFOs in five years beside Herrington at the cabinet table.His testimony.firsthandJohn S. Herrington
New DOE appointees were given fake Roswell briefings with props and corpses on tables.Mowatt-Larssen's firsthand clip; not found in the press.firsthandRolf Mowatt-LarssenRoswell briefings in the basement of DOE
Puthoff: 10-40 craft held; he worked with George W. Bush and Stephen Hadley on disclosure.Puthoff's public statements (2025).firsthandHal Puthoff
Alleged / one person's word (3)
The Atomic Energy Act's 'born secret' rule is how UFO secrecy was hidden.Restricted data is born classified (1946/1954 Act); that UFO material went under it is Grusch's argument.speculationJesse Michels, citing GruschDavid Grusch
Malmgren held debris from the 1962 Bluegill Triple Prime test, which was designed to bring down UFOs.Malmgren's late-life claim; disputed by Douglas Dean Johnson.firsthandHarald Malmgren
Glenn Gaffney ran the legacy crash-retrieval program, a joint DOE and CIA effort.From The Age of Disclosure; Gaffney denies it.secondhandJesse MichelsThe Age of DisclosureThe Lockheed craft offered to AAWSAPThe Age of Disclosure
Doesn't hold as stated (5)
Herrington in 1981 was 'a peon', an intern working in personnel.He was Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of Presidential Personnel from January 1981 (White House nomination biography).firsthandJohn S. HerringtonJohn Herrington denies Brent Friedman's 1981 account
No cars were driven to Washington.His reported line to Schreckinger in 2025; on camera he confirms the drive and paying Brent.secondhandJohn Herrington, via Schreckinger and UFO FEEDJohn S. HerringtonJohn Herrington denies Brent Friedman's 1981 account
The AEC was created by Rickover and DOE took it over in '76.The AEC came from the 1946 McMahon Act; DOE formed in 1977.firsthandJohn S. Herrington
A nuclear-powered airplane built by Howard Hughes sits in a hangar in Idaho Falls.The nuclear propulsion programme left reactor-turbojet test rigs on show at EBR-I; no complete nuclear plane is known, and Hughes was not involved.firsthandJohn S. Herrington
Wen Ho Lee was caught under Herrington.Lee's case broke in 1999 under Clinton and Richardson.firsthandJohn S. Herrington