Podcast episode · American Alchemy · 29 September 2026
Aztec 1948 with Scott and Suzanne Ramsey
Jesse Michels and Chris Ramsay tour Aztec, New Mexico, with Scott and Suzanne Ramsey, who have spent 35 years on the 25 March 1948 Hart Canyon crash: a 100 ft disc, 14-16 small bodies and a military clean-up. Michels argues the 'hoax' label was manufactured: Silas Newton was a convicted con man, but his own papers say government men visited him, Sarbacher called Scully's story 'substantially correct', and the Hottel memo and the Farmington sightings fall in the same March 1950 weeks. A 'marble' from the site tested with no iridium.
Timeline
On the recordWitness testimonyAlleged / one person's word
People across the timeline · click a name or a dot
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1941–45
Bush's wartime science networkOSRD/NDRC; Tate runs subsurface warfare
7 Jan 1948
Mantell killed chasing a UFONewton later says 'disintegrated'
25 Mar 1948
Hart Canyon crash100 ft disc, 14-16 small bodies
Mar-Apr 1948
Recovery and clean-upDragon Wagon, concrete pad, records falsified
1949–1950
Scully's columns and bookBehind the Flying Saucers
8 Mar 1950
Newton's 'Scientist X' lectureDenver; OSI questions Koehler
22 Mar 1950
Hottel memoThree saucers, high-powered radar
15 Sept 1950
Sarbacher to Wilbert SmithScully's book 'substantially correct'
Sept 1952
Cahn's True exposéNewton and GeBauer called con men
1953
Fraud convictionDoodlebug case, Herman Flader
1967
Gasbuggy blastUnderground nuclear gas test near Aztec
1983
Sarbacher letter to SteinmanBush, von Neumann involved
1986
Steinman's UFO Crash at AztecRevives the case
1998–2000
Pflock's Newton journalGovt reps visited Newton
1999
Iridium 'marble' found2026 lab test: no iridium
2026
Michels and Ramsay at the siteRamseys' third book
The claims, checked
On the record (7)
Newton lectured as 'Scientist X' at Denver on 8 March 1950 about a landed saucer with 16 crew.Audio survives; OSI questioned the students and radio man George Koehler.firsthandSilas Newton
Scully's Behind the Flying Saucers (1950) told the story from Newton and 'Dr. Gee'.Scully never named Aztec.analysisFrank ScullySilas Newton
Newton and GeBauer were con men.Cahn's True exposé (Sept 1952); convicted in 1953 over the 'doodlebug' fraud.analysisJ.P. CahnSilas Newton
Sarbacher told Wilbert Smith in 1950 that the crash stories were 'substantially correct'.Smith's notes of 15 September 1950, answering about Scully's book.firsthandRobert SarbacherRoswell: the Army's 'flying disc'
The Hottel memo (22 March 1950) reports three saucers recovered in New Mexico, downed by high-powered radar.Record as a document; its content is third-hand via DC police investigator Karl Howe.secondhandFBI Vaultunknown → Karl Howe → Guy Hottel (FBI) → told itThe Guy Hottel memo (FBI, 22 March 1950)
Hundreds of objects over Farmington on 15-18 March 1950.Front page of the Farmington Daily Times, 18 March 1950.firsthandFarmington Daily TimesThe Farmington 'saucer armada'
Sarbacher's 1983 letter to Steinman names Bush and von Neumann.The letter is published.firsthandRobert SarbacherVannevar BushJohn von Neumann
Witness testimony (2)
A 100 ft disc crashed at Hart Canyon near Aztec on 25 March 1948 with 14-16 small bodies inside.Named witnesses (Noland, Farley, minister Solon Brown), interviewed decades later by one research team; no contemporaneous paper.firsthandDoug Noland, Ken Farley, Solon Brown via Scott Ramseywitnesses → Scott Ramsey → Jesse Michels → told itScott Ramsey
Black SUVs and cargo helicopters dug a 30 ft hole near the site in 1999.Brett Lanier, now mayor of Aztec, firsthand.firsthandBrett Lanier
Alleged / one person's word (10)
The craft was cut up and hauled out on a Dragon Wagon from a concrete pad, and the mesa was re-landscaped.Fred Reed's 1999 letter and site observation; the pad is 'an oil-well cap' per Pflock.secondhandScott RamseyKarl Pflock
About 200 personnel records were falsified to show the recovery team elsewhere.Tech Sgt. Dick Harper, through Ramsey.secondhandDick Harper → Scott Ramsey → told itScott Ramsey
The craft went to Wright Field and turned translucent under high-voltage tests.An anonymous Kodak instrumentation engineer, through Ramsey.anonymousScott Ramsey
Cahn offered Scully $10,000, was a Hoover friend and in the Air Force.Not confirmed.analysisJesse Michels
Government representatives visited Newton about the story.Newton's handwritten testament as described by Pflock (2000): a government hand behind the hoax label, either way.firsthandSilas Newton → anonymous source → Karl Pflock → told itKarl PflockSilas Newton
Pflock was filmed breaking into a congressman's office to take Ramsey's package.Anonymous single source.anonymousJesse MichelsKarl Pflock
Scully's scientists were Vannevar Bush's wartime network: Tate, Tolman and the founders of Texas Instruments.Real people and real ties; no document puts any of them on the mesa.analysisVannevar BushSuzanne Ramsey
A radar near Los Alamos brought the craft down.The Ramseys' finding; the Hottel memo has the same idea.analysisScott Ramsey
Corso's list of back-engineered tech: integrated circuit, laser, fiber optics, night vision.Corso's own claims.firsthandPhilip J. Corso
High-power microwave weapons and psionics are used to bring craft down.Jake Barber's claims.firsthandJake BarberJake Barber and the golden egg
Doesn't hold as stated (1)
A 'marble' found at the site in 1999 is about 40% iridium.Zodakis' 2026 lab tests found titanium, gold and other elements but no iridium; Michels reports it honestly.analysisScott Ramsey